Breathing Easy - Let's Work for an Idle-free Taipei!

[maoman]

It occurs to me that idling at red lights is not good for the environment. Does anyone have any statistics on what turning off one's engine for 60 seconds and restarting it does for the environment? Or to one's engine? I'd like to learn a little more about this, I think.

[Jaboney]

I've read that, in a new vehicle, if you idle for more than 10 seconds, it's more fuel efficient to turn the engine off. But don't have the stats.

That said, trying to get everyone to idle at the light would require a great deal of education, some degree of effort, and therefore not likely happen.

I suspect the biggest gains and lowest hanging fruit would come from regulations to sell more fuel efficient scooters, and insulating buildings to save on energy going towards air conditioning or heating, and thereby shutting down some of those coal-fired power plants.

[cranky laowai]

It would be interesting to see the figures.

But in action? People don't even turn off their scooters as they push them into parking spaces. Grr. (Where's that pet peeves thread?)

About 15 years ago In China, though, bus drivers would cut off the engine at the drop of a hat (going down a hill, coasting, whatever).

[cfimages]

There should be some stats and more info at http://www.idle-freetaipei.com/home.html As I don't own a car or scooter I've never really looked through the site.

[jimipresley]

Heck, I was worried there for a moment. I thought maoman was accusing me of being idle. Meanwhile he's just trying to get me to stop smoking!

[Kal El]

I've noticed that a lot of the older folks in Tainan do this. The younger blokes don't, because they're always in a hurry to come bursting out of the blocks.

[IdleFreeTaipei]

Hey everyone! I'm pretty new on here, but I'd like to get some feedback and discussion going regarding the group I started about a year ago called "Idle-Free Taipei."

The idea is this: Most of the traffic lights at major intersections in Taipei have timers. There are some that have you waiting a full minute before even flashing up the "99" seconds. I did the math (most of which you can find http://taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2011/05/17/2003503424) and found that Taipei scooter drivers are wasting up to NTD$900,000/day... without moving.

I did more research and found that there are anti-idling movements all over the world, including laws in Switzerland that "require motorists to turn off their engines while waiting for the red traffic light to turn green."

In the past year, I've joined up with some people and we're trying to spread the word across the city. I've printed out business cards and stickers, and we've held a handful of events where we've basically stood on street corners (Zhongxiao/Dunhua) and held up signs, distributed information to motorists, and Captain Air sings his anti-pollution ballads to scooters who are trapped waiting at the endless red light.

Anyway, that's what we do! I'm curious to hear what others think about this idea, or if you have seen or heard about us before. Also, if there's anybody who wants to join the team, we'd love to hear your ideas on how to market this idea to the average Taipei motorist, companies that deliver by scooter, etc.

Thanks!!!

[Jaboney]

Dangerous move.

If you need to get out of the way, there's a delay. And a lot of scooters here (a much more significant source of pollution), won't reliably start up when the light changes.

[Dragonbones]

I thought I read recently that this had become law. (Edited)

(Yes, edit; here:)
http://www.chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/nati ... ts-rev.htm

March 2, 2012

As of yesterday, drivers of vehicles and riders of motorbikes are required to shut off their engines if idling for more than three minutes.

a minimum fine of NT$1,500 will be imposed on motorbike riders for violating the new regulation, and the minimum fine for car drivers who violate the rule will be NT$3,000.

[IdleFreeTaipei]

I thought I read recently that this had become law. (Edited)

(Yes, edit; here:)
http://www.chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/nati ... ts-rev.htm

March 2, 2012

As of yesterday, drivers of vehicles and riders of motorbikes are required to shut off their engines if idling for more than three minutes.

a minimum fine of NT$1,500 will be imposed on motorbike riders for violating the new regulation, and the minimum fine for car drivers who violate the rule will be NT$3,000.

Indeed it has.

Imagine a world where there were actually authorities walking around with stopwatches looking for idling vehicles. A truck driver in your article mentions that it is a "waste of time" to turn off the engine (about 1 second by my approximation). Even if the EPA had the manpower or money to enforce this law, imagine once of those "idle patrol" officers watching somebody idle for 2:55 seconds. "Shucks! Almost had one!"

I go into it more here http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2011/09/28/2003514359

It is time the EPA made a widespread public service announcement. Rather than impose a NT$1,500 to NT$60,000 fine for these minuscule violators, why not do more to tell commuters how it is actually in their best interests to stop idling? Wouldn’t it clean Taipei’s street-corner air much faster if people were educated about idling and how this is related to their health and wallets, instead of threatening them with fines?

From what I can see, the law is acknowledging a serious problem without offering a practical, effective solution.

[IdleFreeTaipei]

Dangerous move.

If you need to get out of the way, there's a delay. And a lot of scooters here (a much more significant source of pollution), won't reliably start up when the light changes.

To address your second point first: If your scooter isn't reliable enough to start up every time, it probably A) wouldn't pass emissions tests and shouldn't be on the road to begin with or B) could be a problem that is fixable for under $500. Actually, we've discussed making an announcement that we will offer financial aid to those who can't afford the simple repairs to make scooters cleaner and more reliable. That being said, I would still expect a large percentage of scooters do start up on command, and every bit counts. If you (not you specifically) don't feel comfortable with the performance of your scooter, then idle away while the rest of us are doing our part.

About the safety issue: I see why this is a concern in some situations. Again, I don't expect people to be 100% idle-free 100% of the time. There is an element of common sense involved. However, if you are sitting in one of those white "dai zhuan" scooter boxes 6 scooters deep in every direction, you have a greater chance of passing out from lack of oxygen than getting hit by an oncoming vehicle.

Finally, you mentioned scooters are "a much more significant source of pollution." Scooters are our one and only target audience. Not cars, buses, etc.

[TheGingerMan]

Imagine a world where there were actually authorities walking around with stopwatches looking for idling vehicles.

Sounds like A Brave New World.
Count me out.

[belgian pie]

Taiwan should first implement a 'green wave' system for it's traffic lights, than talk about idling, now the system is a complete chaos ...

[Big Vern]

Taiwan should first implement a 'green wave' system for it's traffic lights, than talk about idling, now the system is a complete chaos ...

Indeed. I can't believe the way traffic lights are set up here. It amazes me even more that other drivers try to run red lights because the next one 200m down the road is only going to be red too .

[sandman]

The idling law is for parked vehicles, not traffic lights. There is no WAY I'm sitting in heavy traffic with a dead machine. FAR too dangerous for my taste. Plus, my bike's lights go off if the ignition is not on. Sitting at lights in the rain in the dark with no engine and no lights? Ummmm. Yeah, sure! Count me in!