Friendship

[Hannibal]

However, because it is in my nature to be generous and to look for the best in people,

If you have to look for the good stuff, maybe you're just making it up when it doesn't appear?

I take people at face value. So far, so good.

I find it very disconcerting that a grumpy old fart like jdsmith says exactly the same thing my wife says. The horror!

I'm only grumpy online, in a tomhill'ssobbingmangina kind of way. Or really sad when I write short stories. IRL I'm pretty much the way I was when I saw you in that Taipei tapas bar that doesn't exist anymore.

[Just Jennifer]

Personally, I don't expect much from friends. But, some give quite a lot, and others less. But, I'm not in any friendship for what I can get out of it (and I know that doesn't make me special). I like most people, and enjoy the company of friends and even that of people who I don't see often and don't know all that well, so long as they're friendly! I don't often ask for help/favors, so, its all pretty good.

My best friends are my wife and my dog. The people I like, I am fairly sure would help me if I asked, and if they could. That's enough, I think.

[Just Jennifer]

I don't often ask for help/favors, so, its all pretty good.

If you ever do, I imagine there would be a long long line of willing people would would love to have your back.

I guess that's what friendship means to me. And that's why my wife is my best friend. She has my back.

[Kal El]

I have to agree on the sentiment that my SO is my best friend, as she always has my back, takes my side (shits me out in private if I was wrong) and truly cares about me. Other than that, I can count my true friends on one hand. Also, I've never been a "best friend" kind of guy, and always just had plenty of friends. Here I have my beach friends, my rugby friends, my beer at 7-11 friends, my Sunday dinner friends etc.

I find I've become more private and reclusive in recent years, and don't "demand" too much of friendships anymore. Just getting on with my own stuff. In Taiwan, especially over the last two to three years, I have re-evaluated certain "friendships" though, and in most cases I guess I just see them as acquaintances, nothing more. Doesn't really bother me either way.
However, if someone needs my help, and I can help, I do try to. Other than that, I know who I can rely on and who I can't. So, I guess that's good enough for now.

[HeadhonchoII]

Coming to Taiwan can make one cynical about friendships. You find out after a while the vast majority of friends will never visit you. They don't have a clue about your life , your joys and your struggles.So you learn that in the end family and yourself are usually the ones to depend on.

Then there is the other side of the coin, good friends who left Taiwan and disappeared never to return to the island. Being resident in Taiwan this happens quite often because it's not like HK or NYC or London or something where people might pass though every now and then.

But friends are great for getting more out of life.

I heard of a study that says who we think are our
best friends and who we actually spend our time hanging out with is usually quite different. Big Vern pretty much alluded to this in his post. It's mostly about convenience and accessibility.

[Big Vern]

Coming to Taiwan can make one cynical about friendships. You find out after a while the vast majority of friends will never visit you. They don't have a clue about your life , your joys and your struggles.So you learn that in the end family and yourself are usually the ones to depend on.

Then there is the other side of the coin, good friends who left Taiwan and disappeared never to return to the island. Being resident in Taiwan this happens quite often because it's not like HK or NYC or London or something where people might pass though every now and then.

I think we also need to factor in the tenuous nature of many of our working lives in Taiwan. I found out today that a woman I used to teach with at one of those crappy bilingual kindys just got fired. She's in her 60s and took a week off with a chest infection (unpaid sick leave, of course). Came back into school and was told she was fired. She'd been working there for over 7 years.

I think that when a lot of us are living as totally expendable hourly rate workers there is a tendency not to create deep bonds. Nobody but me is watching my back, so why should I watch anyone else's?

Maybe I'm thinking too much. It just upset me when I heard about my previous colleague. "You used to be no problem. Now you are a problem. You go." Teaching EFL in Taiwan can be pretty shitty.

[Tomas]

Personally, I don't expect much from friends. But, some give quite a lot, and others less. But, I'm not in any friendship for what I can get out of it (and I know that doesn't make me special). I like most people, and enjoy the company of friends and even that of people who I don't see often and don't know all that well, so long as they're friendly! I don't often ask for help/favors, so, its all pretty good.

My best friends are my wife and my dog. The people I like, I am fairly sure would help me if I asked, and if they could. That's enough, I think.

I don't expect much either. I was just musing on whether or not I create naturally imbalanced relationships but giving too much. I don't plan to change much, maybe reign myself in a just a bit.

And there are a few people out there who I'll owe for the rest of my life, who can ask me for anything, anytime, and expect a positive reception .

[Bunks]

I'm only grumpy online, in a tomhill'ssobbingmangina kind of way.

Hey, I like being a whiny puss.

I think many things. I think that if you rock a good vibe then you hold a winning hand. If you rock a solid hand then you largely hold a winning hand. Like rocking a solid hand could mean you are a solid racist, and that's not a good thing. But rocking a good vibe means you are cool and shit. Some people rock a potential good vibe and those people get cut a little slack. I put myself in that category. People are friendly to me because they can see I dont mean to be such a dick. I'm a dick-tim of circumstance.

Actually I haven't read the thread, I just stabbed at the last page and saw my (worst ever) counsellor dishing my name about like so much cheap wine. Plus I've had a few summer arvo brews so I am making no sense.

Peace and love, y'all.

[divea]

I'm only grumpy online, in a tomhill'ssobbingmangina kind of way.

Hey, I like being a whiny puss.

I think many things. I think that if you rock a good vibe then you hold a winning hand. If you rock a solid hand then you largely hold a winning hand. Like rocking a solid hand could mean you are a solid racist, and that's not a good thing. But rocking a good vibe means you are cool and shit. Some people rock a potential good vibe and those people get cut a little slack. I put myself in that category. People are friendly to me because they can see I dont mean to be such a dick. I'm a dick-tim of circumstance.

Actually I haven't read the thread, I just stabbed at the last page and saw my (worst ever) counsellor dishing my name about like so much cheap wine. Plus I've had a few summer arvo brews so I am making no sense.

Peace and love, y'all.

People are friendly to you????????? On the TEASE??? That's coz they have no choice........they can't not be nice or they'll get flamed. Everyone's nice here. Don't make it personal.
















And I love that I can mess with your head.

[HeadhonchoII]

Coming to Taiwan can make one cynical about friendships. You find out after a while the vast majority of friends will never visit you. They don't have a clue about your life , your joys and your struggles.So you learn that in the end family and yourself are usually the ones to depend on.

Then there is the other side of the coin, good friends who left Taiwan and disappeared never to return to the island. Being resident in Taiwan this happens quite often because it's not like HK or NYC or London or something where people might pass though every now and then.

I think we also need to factor in the tenuous nature of many of our working lives in Taiwan. I found out today that a woman I used to teach with at one of those crappy bilingual kindys just got fired. She's in her 60s and took a week off with a chest infection (unpaid sick leave, of course). Came back into school and was told she was fired. She'd been working there for over 7 years.

I think that when a lot of us are living as totally expendable hourly rate workers there is a tendency not to create deep bonds. Nobody but me is watching my back, so why should I watch anyone else's?

Maybe I'm thinking too much. It just upset me when I heard about my previous colleague. "You used to be no problem. Now you are a problem. You go." Teaching EFL in Taiwan can be pretty shitty.

This is true too. Most people working in the English teaching industry don't last more than a few years due to the lack of advancement opportunities and unstable working conditions along with the challenging environment. A lot of business people end up moving to China too. Not enough foreigners actually put down roots here. It's not a great place to be an immigrant as there is little community support. There are probably a hundred or two hundred people from my home nation in the whole of Taiwan. There are probably a thousand in Hong Kong alone. Only the Saffas, Americans and Canadians have anything resembling a migrant community here. I think it's definitely easier for Asians who go to Western countries because they have a huge migrant population to interact with if they see fit, the pay and working conditions are usually better, plus the environment is often better looked after and maintained.

[Kal El]

Then there is the other side of the coin, good friends who left Taiwan and disappeared never to return to the island.

That's something I find hard to understand. People you have been "friends" with for years who just disappear.

"Where's John? I haven't seen him in a week or two and he's not answering his phone."
"Oh, his wife told my wife on Skype that they left and aren't coming back."

I mean, WTF? You can't manage a good bye or a text or something? That's just douchebaggery. Most people, fortunately, seem to at least let you know.

[sandman]

the vast majority of friends will never visit you. They don't have a clue about your life , your joys and your struggles.So you learn that in the end family and yourself are usually the ones to depend on.

Isn't this just normal life?
Tomas hates me on account of my flat belly and general air of bonhomie. But he's still a friend. There are lots of people who's backs I have when the chips are down. Hopefully, they will never know it until its needed. Its how I roll. I prefer to be the nasty curmudgeon.

[Hannibal]

Actually I haven't read the thread, I just stabbed at the last page and saw my (worst ever) counsellor dishing my name about like so much cheap wine. Plus I've had a few summer arvo brews so I am making no sense.

Peace and love, y'all.

Worst ever? Meh...I'll take that.

I've been thinking about the "friends who disappear thing" that was mentioned. I've tried to keep up and cheerful on FB since the great migration, but the whole working 40 hours a week thing has taken most of my energy, and the final steps to the plan are the harder ones. That only explains me though, and I don't think I shared a whole lot of my personal life with many people anyway...not online anyway. Face to face, it would pour out because I hung out with people I cared for.

I think Sandy has it right.

the vast majority of friends will never visit you. They don't have a clue about your life , your joys and your struggles.So you learn that in the end family and yourself are usually the ones to depend on.

Isn't this just normal life?

It is. There are guys here I just met and F&ck, they cannot shut the hell up about their personal lives. They don't get that a) I don't know them so b) I don't much care or c) that what they are describing is horrible, family troubles, police charges pending, drugs, blah blah. I prefer my boss. I ask, what did you do on your day off. "I took my kid to a small island at the mouth of the Mohawk River and saw the deer close up." Any fishing there, I ask. He shows me some great shots of some small mouth bass he caught recently. Cool, I say. I'll take my boy there. Cool, he says and we part ways. Are we friends? No, but I'd prefer to work next to that guy than the alldaylong whiny beaches on the other side of the room.

Children make friends. Adults, afaik, spend time with people who don't piss them off during their wind down time. I was working a job last month and one guy, 47 tells me "I thought he was my friend" about another guy, 42, he'd been working with for 6 months who left him totally in the lurch, not by quitting, but just by not showing up for work anymore. wtf?

Building a friendship as an adult with another adult takes years and far more time than most people can afford. That's why people like Tomas feel stepped on. They commit a lot of their energy early before the friendship understanding is properly understood. Saps.

[Kal El]

I think Sandy has it right.

the vast majority of friends will never visit you. They don't have a clue about your life , your joys and your struggles.So you learn that in the end family and yourself are usually the ones to depend on.

Isn't this just normal life?

It is. There are guys here I just met and F&ck, they cannot shut the hell up about their personal lives. They don't get that a) I don't know them so b) I don't much care or c) that what they are describing is horrible, family troubles, police charges pending, drugs, blah blah. I prefer my boss. I ask, what did you do on your day off. "I took my kid to a small island at the mouth of the Mohawk River and saw the deer close up." Any fishing there, I ask. He shows me some great shots of some small mouth bass he caught recently. Cool, I say. I'll take my boy there. Cool, he says and we part ways. Are we friends? No, but I'd prefer to work next to that guy than the alldaylong whiny beaches on the other side of the room.

Children make friends. Adults, afaik, spend time with people who don't piss them off during their wind down time. I was working a job last month and one guy, 47 tells me "I thought he was my friend" about another guy, 42, he'd been working with for 6 months who left him totally in the lurch, not by quitting, but just by not showing up for work anymore. wtf?

Building a friendship as an adult with another adult takes years and far more time than most people can afford. That's why people like Tomas feel stepped on. They commit a lot of their energy early before the friendship understanding is properly understood. Saps.

You and Sandy have put it very well, I think. Well said, and something to think about for me.